I wouldn’t say the same. Veneziano and Romano are like a
split from Rome’s personality. Rome is a conflation of both of them. If you
read the manga, you’ll notice that his expressions are very uncanny to the ones
his grandsons make.
Anyways, there are similar parallels between them that I
think would be worth exploring later.
Ex: This scene replicates Italy and Germany’s typical dynamic:
frantic Italian and no-nonsense German.
Source: Bamboo Thicket (Eng trans., Hetarchive, Oct 20th,
2013).
Edit: Oh it might have to do with the legend of the two brothers who were raised by wolves and founded Rome, Romulus and Remus.
Sure thing 😀
Post coming up tonight!
I had originally intended to answer these last night, but I fell asleep lol.
I’m so glad that you like your classes. I can relate! My birthday is December 9th so I’m always a year behind people my age 🙂 That’s such a bizarre logic for them to use, like what?
My school day was better, thank you! While it’s a lot of work, fourth year in uni is the first time where things feel personal. There are twenty students in some of my classes now rather than 400+
What’s funny is that I found out that a group of professors in my department took it upon themselves to learn my name even though I’ve never spoken in class or have even had some of them. They’re looking for prospective masters students lmao.
Professor: This is the first time where you can’t sit in class and say nothing. Don’t think I won’t pick on you.
Me: *resigns to having to speak and decides to raise hand*
Professor: Ah, yes. Ariella. You’re doing the presentation on penal appetites in the media, yeah?
And oh god yes! Twitter and tumblr are the worst offenders of this. Conflicting opinions shouldn’t inherently bring out rude derogatory language in people nor should it prevent someone from considering an alternate point of view.
What this post will explore is the misgivings of Poland’s
characterization. This will just be a quick rundown of why he was characterized
the way that he was. I’ll conclude with a brief critique of Himaruya’s approach
to the subject.
Poor Creator Choice:
A common reaction in the fandom is complete bewilderment at Himaruya’s
characterization of Poland. No Polish cultural stereotypes implicate cross-dressing or speaking in a Nagoya (school girl/ valley girl) accent.
Poland’s “high-schooler”
speech was a creative choice made by Himaruya (vol 1 bio), albeit in poor taste.
“Also, his Nagoya high schooler-like speech is just a personal preference of the artist.”
In the
fourth original chapter, Himaruya also confirms that this choice was pointless;
in other words, there was no real meaning or significance to it. He did it
because it was his preference.
Sources: Hetarchive.net/ Poland + Hetarchive, notes & etc + Hetarchive, main story chapter 4.
When
you portray—let alone personify—another culture, a vast degree of
consciousness and discretion must be exercised. While Poland’s initial design as a girl
influenced the cross-dressing trope, it doesn’t make it any less of a bad decision
on his part.
Source: Bamboo Thicket (Eng trans., Hetarchive, July 23, 2008).
Character Notes:
Other criticisms of Poland’s character have to do with how
incompetent, silly, and unserious he comes off as. I’m not here to argue
against that. What I am here to disprove is the claim that this was done with
no meaning behind it.
That’s not true. Again, while it’s poorly done in taste, it
still has a purpose to Poland’s character.
He’s described as a shy and anxious person who becomes weird
to hide this sensitivity.
Source: Hetarchive.net/ Poland
Ex:When he and Lithuania first form their union. He initially didn’t want to talk to Lithuania but later adopts an ‘eccentric’ casing to hide behind.
Avoidance, Underuse,
and Reformulation (?)
As Hetarchive’s profile on him has already pointed out, over the
years, Poland’s tendency to cross-dress has “toned down.” In other words, the
trope isn’t as common anymore.
This is an ongoing trend in Himaruya’s content that I’ve
picked up on over the years. It’s clear that he’s learned from his mistakes by
discarding harmful, insensitive, and ignorant portrayals of the characters.
However, what disappoints me is that rather than acknowledging these mistakes,
he has chosen not to comment on the matter. This is more harmful in my opinion
because it lets the pot of discourse stew and boil in an unresolved,
discombobulated mess.
ella, i really respect all the posts you’ve made over the years and your analytical skills, and i think you’re a very smart person and a great contributor to this fandom. however, i have to disagree strongly with this post. why is poland crossdressing offensive, in your opinion, in the first place? i have seen many polish fans criticize it, that’s true, but their reasoning for doing so usually boils down to conservatism. they find it culturally offensive because in polish culture there is a strong trend of conservatism and men crossdressing, or being feminine at all or – lets just cut to the chase – being gay, is seen as strange and wrong by many. i have never seen another reason given for WHY his femininity is supposedly offensive.
you could argue that even if its wrong, to be accurate feliks’s character should reflect the conservatism of polish culture. however i would have to really disagree with that as well. in poland, just as is the case with all countries, there is still diversity among the citizens; there is still an lgbt culture there and there are still lgbt people there. why should the dominant social conservatism be the aspect of polish culture that gets embodied and turned into an emblem of the whole nation? why cant the nation be represented by a character who is strongly implied to be gay?
as a gay guy i would ask you to please re-examine why you consider feliks’s femininity to be a “mistake” because honestly, there doesn’t need to be a “reason” for a male character to be feminine, and it is okay for male characters – and indeed real life men – to be feminine.
Hello!
Thank
you for your comments and contribution to the discussion. I will elaborate on
what I said. I understand and recognize that I could have distinguished the
scenarios more clearly.
My
argument wasn’t that cross-dressing itself or a man being more feminine was
offensive. I’m an avid supporter of the LGBTQ+ community, and I’m truly sorry
if my OP came off as anything other. What I did say was that since Hetalia in
canon is predicated on stereotypes and because there is no Polish cultural
stereotype that includes cross-dressing, it wouldn’t make sense for
cross-dressing to be a critical aspect of Poland’s character. He’s personifying
a culture based on a generalization. In no way does this mean to negate or
dismiss the LGBTQ + community in Poland.
My
fault was the problematic implications that Himaruya’s model of stereotypes has
if he makes Poland’s cross-dressing central to the character. It would imply
that Poland is stereotyped for their cross-dressing, which it isn’t. As you
mentioned, Poland is generally more conservative. Now, this doesn’t mean that
if Poland cross-dresses in canon that it would be inherently offensive and
automatically be equated to a Polish stereotype. What I could have made clearer
is that it’s the fact that it’s integral to his character that it is, because
it would it would imply a larger reflection on Polish culture in whole. Again,
it’s not the cross-dressing that’s offensive.
I’ll
draw a similar example with France. France cross-dresses too; however, it’s not
something central to his character. You see it in the Magical Strike AU and a
couple Holiday Events, but that’s not a trademark aspect of France when he
normally appears in canon. Therefore, France isn’t trademarked for
cross-dressing, even though it’s something he does. It doesn’t reflect on the
French culture in whole and yet still opens the possibility for fair representation.
Meanwhile, Poland in earlier characterizations was well-known for his
cross-dressing. It was central to his character. With such a conservative
culture, I can understand why Polish fans would be upset.
Lastly,
fanon should always allow for different, unique interpretations. The nations can
have any sexualities or romantic orientations that they believe would be
applicable.
Moreover,
I’ve already gone on the record to prove that this diversity is also represented
in canon. The issue at hand was more of an accurate representation of culture
and what national identities are paramount for. What goes on in the personal
sphere shouldn’t be at the forefront of the cultural stereotype. That’s why I
believe that the personal and cultural identities of the nations need to be separated.
Their personal identities shouldn’t be
conflated with the prominent aspects of the cultures that they represent,
otherwise it leads to a slippery slope where unrepresentative assumptions can
be made. This is why when asked I’ve never given a concrete answer or assigned
labels because of the generalized implications it would cause, not to mention
that I don’t wish to limit how others perceive the characters’ sexualities and orientations
to be. This applies to both sides of the
equation, straight or LGBTQ+.
Cultural stereotypes should be neutral to
sexual and romantic orientations and gender identities. For example, what
Germany is known for by virtue of stereotypes is beer, wurst, blond hair, and
blue eyes, hence those qualities would be emphasized more. In his personal
life, where he’s just a regular person, his sexual and romantic orientation
would not be reflective of his culture and would not tie back to the entire
nation. It could be whatever the fan interprets or decides to adopt in their
characterization and wouldn’t matter at all.
I
hope this made sense. These are the posts I mentioned if you would like to verify.
This has always been my opinion on the matter [x] [x]
What this post will explore is the misgivings of Poland’s
characterization. This will just be a quick rundown of why he was characterized
the way that he was. I’ll conclude with a brief critique of Himaruya’s approach
to the subject.
Poor Creator Choice:
A common reaction in the fandom is complete bewilderment at Himaruya’s
characterization of Poland. No Polish cultural stereotypes implicate cross-dressing or speaking in a Nagoya (school girl/ valley girl) accent.
Poland’s “high-schooler”
speech was a creative choice made by Himaruya (vol 1 bio), albeit in poor taste.
“Also, his Nagoya high schooler-like speech is just a personal preference of the artist.”
In the
fourth original chapter, Himaruya also confirms that this choice was pointless;
in other words, there was no real meaning or significance to it. He did it
because it was his preference.
Sources: Hetarchive.net/ Poland + Hetarchive, notes & etc + Hetarchive, main story chapter 4.
When
you portray—let alone personify—another culture, a vast degree of
consciousness and discretion must be exercised. While Poland’s initial design as a girl
influenced the cross-dressing trope, it doesn’t make it any less of a bad decision
on his part.
Source: Bamboo Thicket (Eng trans., Hetarchive, July 23, 2008).
Character Notes:
Other criticisms of Poland’s character have to do with how
incompetent, silly, and unserious he comes off as. I’m not here to argue
against that. What I am here to disprove is the claim that this was done with
no meaning behind it.
That’s not true. Again, while it’s poorly done in taste, it
still has a purpose to Poland’s character.
He’s described as a shy and anxious person who becomes weird
to hide this sensitivity.
Source: Hetarchive.net/ Poland
Ex:When he and Lithuania first form their union. He initially didn’t want to talk to Lithuania but later adopts an ‘eccentric’ casing to hide behind.
Avoidance, Underuse,
and Reformulation (?)
As Hetarchive’s profile on him has already pointed out, over the
years, Poland’s tendency to cross-dress has “toned down.” In other words, the
trope isn’t as common anymore.
This is an ongoing trend in Himaruya’s content that I’ve
picked up on over the years. It’s clear that he’s learned from his mistakes by
discarding harmful, insensitive, and ignorant portrayals of the characters.
However, what disappoints me is that rather than acknowledging these mistakes,
he has chosen not to comment on the matter. This is more harmful in my opinion
because it lets the pot of discourse stew and boil in an unresolved,
discombobulated mess.
Coming in late to class with a sarcastic teacher like
For me, it’s always a debate between Poland or Austria. Poland
wins because he’s more confident in his looks (despite being an overall anxious
person).
I’m not ignoring requests for a characterization post. It’ll
be a separate thing later on.
Anyways, the answer as to why Poland speaks like a valley girl
and cross-dresses is pretty underwhelming and anticlimactic. There isn’t all
that much to say.
Ellawritesficssometimes 