Q & A

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Do you have a theory on Germania? It seems weird
that Rome is still his friend in heaven if he did kill him. Also Himaruya wrote
something along the lines “it’s ‘believed’ he killed Rome” so… he
didn’t really kill him?? Also he says they’re friends, but later says they hate
each other, with Persia and Germania being all buddy-buddy taunting Rome. And
why is he Prussia and Germany’s dad when Rome is a grandfather?

–  Yes, it is weird. You are right that the matter
of whether Germania really did deliver a fatal blow to Rome is left open-ended.
It’s neither a yes or a no.

– That’s also true. His character notes do tend to
contradict each other. I covered this more in detail in my characterization
post of Rome, although that was written after you sent in this ask 😊 [x]. 

– That last question isn’t necessarily true. The
relations between them is incredibly wonky. Germania’s referred to as both the
father and grandfather of Germany in different pieces of canon material. Search Hetarchive’s profile of Germania. 

Image: Grandpa Rome’s Visit Home, Hetarchive. 

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I genuinely learn so much more about the manga
after you analyze it and uncover those hidden messages that have been embedded
into Hetalia ❤ Any chance you know a little something about India and/or
Thailand? Thanks anyway!

I’m glad! 

I do know some things and anyone can too if they search the relevant character tags on the English translation
of Bamboo Thicket, provided by Hetarchive! (ah geez, I sound like a
telemarketer…)

Not all information can be found on the blog, though! 

Just for fun, here’s one
fact each. 

India: He has
considerable stamina.

Source: Halloween 2011 Event, Hetarchive. 

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Thailand: He’s somewhere around 22
years old according to Himaruya.

Source: Hetarchive (Bamboo Thicket, eng trans., Nov 26th, 2010). 


I got a question about the U.S. states. I
know they are not officially canon, that’s not what I wanted to ask. In the
sketch Hima showed what they’d be like, am I mistaken or did he confirm that
they would not be America’s children but his relatives, like Germany’s states?
And that they were all male (brothers I think the state shown said)? I may be
wrong though, it’s been awhile since I seen it, but my friend got into it with
me over whether it disproved the whole his children thing.

Note: Originally in my
State-talia post, I accidentally cropped and posted an image from the question
below in the same Q & A where Himaruya created a hypothetical dialogue with
the states. Nothing about the information I gave or said was incorrect (again,
total accident and you can verify in the initial reblogs to see that I haven’t
changed what I said), but the image was misleading (it had to do with computer
programs/software being personified). Still not sure how that managed to slip
past me
[x]

Anyways, no. They’re not personified. We got a dialogue of
what it would be like if they existed. There is no confirmation of their
relation. All we know hypothetically is that while some possess “mixed feelings,” they still “love America very much.”

Source: Hetarchive (Bamboo Thicket, eng trans., Jan 10, 2015). 

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Tbh, I don’t even know
where to start with this lol. This blog is pretty much dedicated to proving
that whole assertion, so I would recommend checking out my post directory 🙂


People have yelled at me before for me asking
for them only to give me proof for things, since i dont believe just from
someones word. No one ever wants to give proof and gets angry from me not
wanting to believe them until I get proof. So I’ll ask you, does Belgium have a
cannon nyo? And does France have a canon mother (Gaul i think it was)?

I’d suggest removing
those people from your life. If they can’t respect you, then they’re not worth
your time.

Belgium has a canon nyo. Just remember that the nyos that have made appearances in the manga don’t exist
in the same world. There is no canon Gaul. While it’s still not canon, Himaruya
has pondered over the idea of the Kingdom of the Franks being a parental figure to
France.

Source: Hetarchive (Bamboo Thicket, eng trans., April 1rst, 2011 + May 6th, 2008). 

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The post you referenced [x].

Thank you and sure thing!

America:

When he occupies Rome during WW2, he treats the Italy brothers as
friends rather than enemies [x]

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Italy:

He makes temporary peace with France and asks not to fight
when they get shipwrecked during WW2.

Source: Volume 3, United States of Hetalia 2

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He calls upon Santa (Finland) so all parties could stop
fighting and enjoy Christmas.

Source: Volume 1, 🙂 in the World.

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He opts to reside with Germany as a [euphemistic-style] POW. When
asked why he doesn’t try to escape, he explains that he would prefer not to
fight.

Source: Volume 1, Axis Powers.

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He doesn’t hold grudges against anyone regardless of
political conflicts.

Source: Volume 6. 

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England:

He makes a temporary truce with Germany on Christmas (WW2).The two play soccer together. 

Source: Volume 3, A Battlefield’s Kickoff. 

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What this post intends to explore is how Canada’s invisibility
serves as a literary device in fleshing out his character development. While
the approach to this is cruder in older characterizations, it still remains
that Canada’s struggle to establish his independence and form a unique and
memorable identity is integral to his character.

As such, rather than other nations deliberately ignoring
him, his invisibility serves as a reminder of how he struggled to find a place
on the world stage. His entire character arc in World Stars is predicated on
him detaching himself from England’s and America’s shadows and becoming his own
person. Longer posts on that here [x] [x]

Invisibility on the
World Stage:

One misconception that I’ve seen perpetuated is that
England, France, and America intentionally ignore Canada, which makes them
terrible people. This simply isn’t true. The fact that they forget Canada is
completely unintentional. It’s supposed to represent how Canada as a nation
wasn’t very well-known around the world; there wasn’t something distinctly
unique to his identity that would make him stand out.

In older strips, the approach to this is much cruder. Some
examples would include Canada not being accounted for and being sat on during a
G8 meeting [x]. Interestingly, the one country who does recognize him, France, still admits that Canada doesn’t have anything remarkable about him. I did say cruder, didn’t I?

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Likewise, after mistaking Canada for America, England
apologizes to Canada. He didn’t intentionally forget Canada. Again, the purpose
of this gag was to illustrate his lacking world identity and how he went from
lurking in England’s shadows to being overshadowed by America’s.

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A common rebuttal to this latter point would be asking why
France and England were able to see Canada when he was younger.

The answer to this is simple. France and England had a
vested interest in the fur trade in North America, which is what made Canada a
financial mine for settlers. He was well-known to the world at the time. What’s
sad is that Canada was able to recognize the superficial reasons he was valued
for at a young age. 

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Ex: He mistakenly believes that England is looking at him
not as a source of resources but as an actual person of value. In reality,
England was analyzing Canada’s hair, which he believes was inherited from
France [x]. 

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Nonetheless, the two do become family and treat each other
as such. However, the irony is that while England cares very deeply for both
America and Canada, he devoted most of his attention to America due to political
struggles (e.g., the American Revolution and the Civil War) [x].

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Personal Relationships:

What I haven’t seen someone point out is that Canada’s
invisibility is limited to world meetings and his status as a personification
and not as a person. By this, I mean that when Canada represents his nation, he’s
forgotten, but in personal circumstances and interactions he’s remembered. It’s
for this reason I believe that the narrative goes from G8 countries forgetting
about Canada—which includes America—to America playing ball with Canada in the same strip.

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On the other hand, others have argued that America throwing
the baseball at Canada is intentionally rude and abusive. It isn’t. America
throwing the ball too fast for Canada to keep up with served as a crude
political metaphor in signifying how Canada respectively struggled to keep up with America’s rapid rate of growth.

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In world stars, this is most prominent as Canada gets
frustrated with America’s tendency to push and expect too much of him. The
problem is that Canada’s lack of identity and affluence is what allowed him to be
pushed around. Point is, later versions of the manga have used less crude methods
to portray this identity complex.

This doesn’t mean that Canada didn’t fight against this, though.

Ex: He reprimands America for overlooking him. The context
is that when America found out that England had fallen ill after the
Revolution, he goes to Canada’s house without thinking to ask Canada how
he was faring too [x]. 

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On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that America didn’t
value Canada as a person either. The struggle between the two emphasized the
difficulty in balancing politics/self-interest and personal relations.

Ex: America’s jealous of Canada for possessing a personality
that makes it easy for him to get along with other nations [x]

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Lastly, it’s important to call attention to the fact that
England valued Canada and was grateful when the latter both stepped up to his
defense and later tended to him at his bedside [x] [x]. 

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All in all, it would be unfair and one-sided to claim that
Canada is deliberately ignored by those close to them. It’s far more
complicated than that and instead detracts from his character development.

Addressing Pedophilic
Concerns in Hetalia

A/N: I will not
post images, as I don’t wish to trigger people. It’s a very sensitive matter
that I’ve concluded would be better off not being shown. It would be
irresponsible if I were to just post them on display without any thought or
warning. However, links will be provided should you wish to see the primary
source material for yourself.

If you are sensitive to this kind of subject matter, PLEASE
DO NOT
read this post.

Let me also just go on the record to say that I HATE
pedophiles. I applied for a student placement that would put me in
a department that specifically targets online predators. I’ve been targeted online before, so it’s something very personal to me. I don’t take the subject
lightly.

Main Arguments:

Hetalia didn’t promote pedophilia or sexual assault nor were
they glorified. Instead, shock humour, which intentionally recognizes the taboo
and moral inappropriateness of various tropes and employs them to provoke a
reaction out of the audience, were used.

The jokes were positioned in a way that made the perpetrator/aggressor
of perverted and unwelcomed behaviour as the antagonist. In other words, Hetalia
wasn’t pedophilic, but the jokes Himaruya made in the past did have pedophilic
undertones.

Over the years and as joke cultures changed, the shock
humour employed in Hetalia disappeared. A lot of this can be attributed to the
heightened consciousness of today’s society, where these egregious jokes aren’t
tolerated. This doesn’t mean that they’ve disappeared entirely, but it’s rare
to see them go unchallenged now.

It can also be
attributed to the fact that Himaruya recognized the harm in the tropes he was
depicting and learned from the mistakes he made in the past. Anyone who has read Hetalia in the last eight
years will know that this newer material cannot be compared to what it used to
be. The joke culture has since shifted and certain things don’t fly anymore.
For example, comparing the France from 2006-2010/2011 to the France now would be
like comparing an ant to a dragonfly; one remains at a lowly, deprived level
while the other soars and flourishes above its counterpart.

Now, I don’t intend to justify or excuse the shock humour
and the harmful depictions/ scenarios of the series’ past. What I do intend to
do is have a discussion about why they existed, why they don’t anymore, and how
Hetalia and its present characterizations can still be appreciated.

Shock Humour, What it
is, and Real-Life Examples:

Before I delve into Hetalia’s early years, I always find it
helpful to find similar scenarios where this also occurs and draw parallels.

The premise of shock humour is to use subjects that are
taboo and make jokes about them. The shock is how the audience reacts to the
abrasive humour. Overall, it deliberately attempts to employ gags that are
morally-offensive to snatch the attention of the audience.

A recent, more relevant example of this would be James Gunn’s
firing from the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise. In the past, he made several
offensive tweets joking about subjects such as sexual assault and pedophilia.

Does that mean that he advocates for sexual
assault and pedophilia? No.

Were the jokes made in poor taste? Yes, 100%.

So, why now? Why is it only now that these jokes are
resurfacing and provoking a negative reaction? Why weren’t they burned at the
media stake like they are today?

Context and timing are critical to understanding why.

As I’ve mentioned, society has grown more conscious of the
type of humour we employ and at whose expense it befalls onto. Newer social movements have made us rethink how our society is
constructed, which includes the meaning and similar construction behind our
words and how they can perpetuate and reproduce harmful assumptions.

In Gunn’s apology, he took full accountability for his old
tweets, admitting that the shocking humour he used came from a provocative
intent and that his sense of humour has since changed.

What I have always been critical of Outrage Culture for is
how it acts as an antithesis to discussion and growth. People are capable of
changing and learning from their past mistakes, so to hold them accountable and
drag them through the dirt for someone they used to be is just as harmful. You
see this in how the actors of the film argued against Gunn’s firing without
condoning the tweets. They were able to approach the situation with compassion
and intelligence, recognizing that while Gunn’s tweets were cringy and inappropriate,
they were unreflective of his present character.  

Shock humour is becoming increasingly contested. What was permissible
before isn’t now. What would before raise eyebrows now raises stakes and
pitchforks.

In my own lifetime, I’ve experienced a dramatic shift
in joke culture too. Common middle school humour included joking about getting “r**ped”
by a difficult test or that anyone who looked at you in a funny way had a “r**pe
face.”  

Something like that today would get crucified by the
internet, as we’ve seen with the James Gunn situation.

Hetalia + Fanon
Response:

It would be one thing if Hetalia supported pedophilia and
sexual assault.

It doesn’t. 

What it instead does is use shock humor and jokes with
pedophilic/unwelcomed sexual undertones to shock the audience into reacting,
reeling them to tune in to the taboo content.

France is the biggest perpetrator of this. In many of the
early Holiday and Event Strips, the premise is that he acts as the perverted antagonist
who will go out of his way to strip, grope, touch, and make other nations
uncomfortable. The humour Himaruya employed knew very little boundaries.
Everyone was France’s target, including Sealand and Latvia who were minors [x]. Fans
too participated in these events, requesting that France “grope” and “m***st”
certain characters.

On the other hand, the end scheme of this crude comic gag
was that France always got his just deserts. He was punished, tied up, and once
even arrested for his lecherous behaviour [x] [x] [x]. The moral of the comics was always
that what he did was wrong and unacceptable. What was problematic is that shock
humour was the device used to push this narrative.

Ex: France himself even says that love shouldn’t be forced
onto anyone [x]

The humour isn’t only limited to France, but he was
definitely at the forefront of it. Some other aspects would include the Italy
brothers (as children and adults) having curls that represent erogenous zones, when any person
with basic child development knowledge knows that it’s impossible for children
to experience sexual pleasure.

One misconception that I always see is that Spain is a
pedophile that deliberately pulls on Romano’s curl, knowing the reaction it’ll elicit.
This is false. Spain is completely unaware of the curl’s purpose [x]. The shock
humour, then, would be provoking and pushing the line between what is
acceptable and what is not; Spain obliviously tugging on Romano’s erogenous
zone would be the unseemly taboo and inappropriate comic gag that would shock
the readers. Some other examples of these jokes would include Spain discussing
wanting to marry the Italy brothers when they were older and displaying a creepy
expression at the thought of all three of them living together [x] [x].

I emphasized context before because these tropes were not
only permitted but encouraged by fans. At the end of the day Himaruya is to be
held fully accountable for what he decided to create and post, but the differences
in joke culture are also something to acknowledge and be mindful of.

The Deleted Strip:

Just the mere thought of this strip brings dread upon any
Hetalia fan who knows what it is. It’s something that no one wants to discuss nor
remember; “Botticelli’s Erotic Paintings” [x] 

Well, it happened, deleted or not. This is an example of where
Himaruya took shock humour too far and made something completely unacceptable. 

What little humour there was in the shock before was now
non-existent: Spain and France go so far as to m**est Chibitalia. Himaruya,
having recognized how depraving and inexcusable this content was, later deleted
it from his blog in 2008. 

There’s no excusing that strip or even the inappropriate
humour that he continued to employ until roughly late 2010/2011. There’s still perverted innuendos, and you can argue that the damaged series where the nations are ‘magically’ stripped of clothes for the sake of fanservice is, in fact, stripping, but the context isn’t that of sexual assault and there are no aggressors [x]. The only qualm I have is Latvia’s inclusion. 

I believe that Himaruya has paid his dues in the
following eight years of content that he’s since put out into the world. They’ve
proven that he’s learned and evolved from his mistakes and no longer supports
this type of humour.

Interesting side
note:

When Himaruya first came to America, he was shocked by how
laxly regulated cartoons were. By this I mean that he was surprised by the
shock humour employed in them and what they were able to get away with. This
isn’t an inaccurate observation.

He cites South Park and Family Guy. While I
haven’t watched South Park, I know firsthand that Family Guy has pulled off some pretty dark
and raunchy jokes, ranging from subjects and persons such as Hitler and
pedophilia (the perverted neighbor old man trope). Something I’ve always
wondered is if this may have played a part in influencing the tropes
that we saw emerge in Hetalia’s early years [x]. 

What Now? +
Suggestions on How to Approach Recent Characterizations:

In the past, I’ve mentioned that not acknowledging older characterizations
and pretending that they didn’t happen is just as harmful as holding onto and
approaching them as if they’re still relevant. The old and new characterizations
for most characters are so dramatically different that they’re incomparable.

The rule of thumb that I’ve used in navigating through this
messy labyrinth of discretion is simple: Take both characterizations (old and
new) and pick out which aspects of the personality have remained true to the
character.

Ex:

Does France still grope and terrorize other nations with unwanted
touching? No.

Does he still like his muscles? Yes. [x]

Larger post on the evolution of France’s characterization
here: [x].

I would be lying if I said that if I had come into the
fandom when this type of humour was still being employed that I wouldn’t have
left it. In fact, I had read the volumes first before reading web-exclusive
content. Nonetheless, I’m still able to recognize that the series has come full
circle in cleaning up its characterizations.

The only thing I find disappointing is that Himaruya hasn’t
addressed but rather deleted some of
this content. It doesn’t even have to do with the use of the shock humour.
Fine, he learned from it and tailored his content accordingly; I get and respect that. What
I don’t respect and have a difficult time accepting is how quiet he’s been on
the whole situation. 

Q & A

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‘But big brother don’t you always say you don’t
want to see me at all?’this. I do wonder if Himaruya will ever make Romano
realize the weight of his words. I’m sure deep down he doesn’t mean any harm
with them,but they surely leave a scar. 

I think that’s
the whole point. Romano doesn’t realize the impact of how mean and vicious he
can be to Veneziano. Veneziano’s also a very sensitive person, so it doesn’t
help. Everyone has their limits

The fact that Romano’s shocked by this is most
telling for me [x]. 

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Countries such as England, Spain, Netherlands,
Portugal, America, and France did overseas trading but weren’t pirates.  

While there is a fan request where Himaruya depicts
England and Spain as pirates for fun, it’s important to remember the negative
implications of the word [x]

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Ex: France knew the
real Captain Hook and warns Seychelles of him [x]. 

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On the other hand, there is one strip that depicts
an unknown African nation as a pirate (in this case, they actually personified
a band of pirates in the region) [x]

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I’ve done a post on religion if you’d like to check
it out. It’s listed in my directory under Characterization in Hetalia [x]. 

The basic gist is that religion and the belief in
God still remains because there is an actual God in Hetalia. Whether they have faith in God depends on the individual and what they’ve experienced.


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Well, all episodes are based on the comics!

Right now, the first thing that comes to mind is America and Canada’s series of
arcs in world stars.

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(He doesn’t have a rifle as a child in the growth spurt strip: “England dreaming of long days passed, Vol 3). 

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There is this panel of child America gripping onto a rifle, though [x].

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I’m just
going to start by saying that I don’t make any canon conclusions without basing
it on something in the manga/ character notes provided. As such, what you
mention would fall under headcanon territory.

The part about America clutching guns is
depicted in canon but the leap to him viewing guns as a safety net and this
being reflected in his gun culture today doesn’t draw on canon material. For
me, a conclusion has to tie two or more pieces of canon material together rather than
using one piece to make a speculation where there aren’t any definitive links.

I know this model is nitpicky, but I’m very
stringent when it comes to forming and supporting an argument ^^

However, your headcanon wouldn’t be entirely
impossible. It actually draws on a similar structure in logic to what we’ve
seen with America before!

Ex: America’s tendency to mass produce is a
reflection of the trauma he experienced as a child in that he didn’t possess
many belongings.

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So, it’s not impossible, but the link hasn’t
been made in canon yet.